A couple of days ago I posted this blog that included this story. Well…now there is more to the story. The same person from the fellowship I pastor also sent me the story linked to here. (Thanks Danay’e). I didn’t say much (like nothing at all) in the previous post but I thought I might say something in this one (Surpise! Surprise!) 🙂
I want to go on record as saying that I find this action reprehensible. I find the whole “running up the score” incident a black eye. I do feel bad for the girls who had to play as their coach wanted them to. I have no clue how the girls felt as they ran up the score. To be ahead 59-0 at halftime and continue to full-court press is unconscionable. It is also inconsiderate and downright disgusting. We have a basketball coach who is an elder in the fellowship I pastor and I cannot see Steve purposely running up the score on any team-heated rival or not. My personal philosophy is “one of these days” for that coach. The school needs to take action against this coach, whether he is a winning coach or not. A reputation is far more important in my book than any “W” in the score box. Personally, I have much more respect for Dallas Academy and their “no quit” spirit than I have for Covenant.
This does bring up another “soap box” of mine. (It is my blog so I am allowed right?) Since when is youth sports supposed to be all about winning and not teaching character? When I umpired softball for three years, my most disgusting times were with moms and dads who were loudmouths and obnoxious. And yes, some found themselves dismissed from the park. 🙂 I had a philosophy of “out of sight out of mind” when I umpired with both players and fans. If I have to tell you to leave you better leave. But what fried me the most is what they were teaching their children. I am reminded of the Scripture in Matthew 23:3: “So practice and observe whatever they tell you-but not what they do. For they preach, but do not practice.” The coach of Covenant Academy can now look in the mirror and say, “Well Micah. You have now lost your credibility on teaching about character and integrity. ” After that, what does he have left?” IMHO: if I was Covenant school I would also be looking for a more credible coach for next year. Update: Covenant School fired the coach Sunday but refused to say whether it was because of an email he fired off to the local paper saying he was not sorry for the score or because he disagreed with the administrator’s, who called the blowout “shameful.”
What do you think? Share your thoughts if you like. I would like to hear what you are thinking right about now.
Well…Bill…I have a post scheduled for tommorrow morning about this situation…
And…I’ll save my comments for that post…but, for once, I think you and I are going to disagree!
Oh well…all good things come to an end! 🙂
I’ll take a pretty big chance at being an oddball here, so forgive me.
Sports is about winning.
Parents, indeed, need to be respectful, kind, and sportsmanlike to other kids and teams, but to make sports about “learning character” is a load of bull, in my opinion.
I can teach my kids CHARACTER in a lot better ways. Allowing them to learn to COMPETE is an entirely different thing.
We’ve softsoaped sports for youth into “building character” so thoroughly that kids quit trying to win. They quit trying to excel. They stop working hard to get better. They fail to see the value of hard work and improvement.
After all, they’re only supposed to “build character”, not try to win. “It’s not about winning, it’s about playing the game right.”
I say bull. If sports isn’t about winning, it’s not sports.
Sure, the kids need to learn how to handle defeat. They need to learn good sportsmanship. They NEED to learn how to LOSE. Kids need to learn to win HONESTLY and FAIRLY.
But to teach them that “winning isn’t what matters” is a slap in the face to why sports exist.
So, a credible coach is one that toys with the opposition and lets them score points even when they are horrible?
I agree, there’s a tricky edge to this. Some coaches like to let games be close and then still win. I’m not sure what that teaches the kids under them – “You’re good enough that you don’t have to give your best and you still kick tail”????
Letting a second or third string play to gain experience is usually a good way to balance out a lopsided score. However, here’s what the parents of the other team wanted… “‘I think the bad judgment was in the full-court press and the 3-point shots,’ said Renee Peloza, whose daughter plays for Dallas Academy. ‘At some point, they should have backed off.'”
So, if you’re far enough ahead, it’s WRONG to shoot 3 pointers, even if you’ve busted your butt to gain that skill and perfect it?
I think the Dallas kids have the perfect attitude – “Even if you are losing, you might as well keep playing,” said Shelby Hyatt, a freshman on the team. “Keep trying, and it’s going to be OK.”
I’m not on the “Covenant is bad” bandwagon here. It’s NOT up to the coach to determine the outcome. That’s borderline point shaving. If he taught his kids to always play their best, and their best was 100-0, that’s consistent. Telling them to “be nice, these kids aren’t very smart” would have been very insulting. Very insulting.
Just my first thoughts 🙂
Say it ain’t so Steve! Is this one of those agree to disagree thingys? Or is it I am right and you aren’t? I will look forward to your post tomorrow. And still love and pray for you in any case.
Thanks for your thoughts B. If you read my post again I did say I felt bad for the girls who were having to play the way the coach wanted. I am not knocking them. I tend to disagree with you and that “you should keep shooting 3 pointers if you have busted your butt in getting that skill.” The coach could have/should have put in his subs and get them playing time. He should have stopped the full court press. Heck, it sounds to me like he could have done that after the 1st quarter. I don’t hold the girls responsible. I hold the coach responsible for this display. I also respectfully disagree that it was not up to the coach. Yes, it was, for the above mentioned reasons. I don’t fault the girls…they had to play. And I still have a ton more respect for the “no quit” attitude of the Dallas squad. My .02 worth.
My dad has been a basketball ref for almost 15 years. He has some interesting stories I can assure you.
Just to add a brief line… these kinds of blowouts are ACTUALLY the responsibility of the league. Teams this badly mis-matched really shouldn’t be playing each other if you don’t want to see these results. Competition should be leveled at the LEAGUE, not by coaches making decisions to hold back their players. That’s ridiculous.
Solitaryman: Sure he does! Probably could entertain for hours!
B: I will agree with you on that front. I don’t know who does the scheduling of games-the league or ADs or even coaches. I still think the coach has some culpability. 🙂
🙂
We’re in happy disagreement, bro.
There may NOT even be a league, but Covenant is a SERIOUS big Christian school (9.5 million in pledges, a football field, 18 acres of property, etc.) and are CLEARLY out of the league of a school with an 8 person b-ball team. There’s an obvious mismatch.
There is no “slaughter rule” in their league…so, no putting an end to the game, no matter the score. Great B., you’ve basically written my post for tomorrow…honest, I wrote it yesterday and probably should have posted it first, before writing about obese people! 🙂
If a team hasn’t won in 4 years…what do you really expect? Them to have many close games?
Let the kids play! As B. said, that’s sports…Remember Michael Jordan who got angry when no one was keeping score during practice? I tend to be of that mindset too…
And, Bill…about the right and he’s wrong thing…of course, I’m right and you are wrong! 🙂
But older people like you are often wrong and don’t even know it!
B: We will stay in happy disagreement then! 🙂 I can live with that!! I will even keep liking you. Ha. Now I know you feel privileged.
I read the first article and it doesn’t say he *didn’t* put in his second or third string. I couldn’t get the second article to open.
We actually faced something similar to this this past season. Trav’s team was made up of 6, 7, and 8 year olds. The six year old form a separate team called the “pups.”
Toward the end of the season, they were playing a cross-county rival who did not have a pups team. The arrangement was that our pups would play the termites (the older boys) before the game (Bethel vs Bethel), then the termites would play the opposite team, then, there would be a 5th quarter where our 6 year olds would play their 7 and 8 year olds.
All went well until the termites blew the other team out of the water. The coach had the second team in by the end of the fourth quarter, and in the third and fourth quarter, boys were playing in positions they had never played before. 🙁 They still kept scoring — they were just that much a better team.
He *could’ve* put the 6 year olds in, and it may have been considered, but since they were supposed to play in the 5th quarter they didn’t.
At the end of the game, the other coach said that since we ran the score up, they would NOT play a 5th quarter. 🙁
So, this was a case of a coach *trying* to hold back and still won soundly. There is no doubt that the score could have easily been 100 to nothing if he had kept the first string in or if everyone played the positions they were used to playing, and that was a FOOTBALL game.
Later that day, (and in other games in the season) the older boys literally held themselves back, not the coaches. 7 and 8 year olds typically won’t do that though. 🙂
The unfortunate effect, though, was that our teams went into playoffs after having our starters on the bench for almost three full games.
Could the coach have done something differently? Perhaps (and again, it may have said in the second article that he played his starters the whole time), but, if he WAS playing his second and third string, I can understand why he continued the full court press — they may not get to practice it in a game situation much.
There are just a lot of “ifs” and variables. There is good sportsmanship to consider, but there is also hard work and playing up to your full potential.
Steve: I will wait for your post tomorrow and then cause trouble on it. Especially after that last remark about older people and age. You just wait. One of these days you will get there and have some whipper snappper make comments.
I will grant you and Bernard one thing: they had no business playing each other. Covenant is a serious school. Can anyone say recruiting?
I apologize for not having a chance to read all the comments thoroughly, however, I think I might take a “fence” approach. I coached little league girls soccer (my niece’s team) several years back. We were on the side of the “losing” team for every game. Mind you, I had never played a game of soccer in my life, but had a wonderful 2 hour training session on how to be a coach. I explained to the parents prior to the first practice my lack of ability and knowledge and requested anyone who had more knowledge that would like to volunteer to assist (or have me assist them) step forward. We played, we learned, we had fun.
Granted, sports are about winning and losing and I am not a big fan of everyone needs to feel like they are winners… I think there is a lot of character that can be gained from learning how to lose gracefully and also learning how to win gracefully.
I am not familiar with all the details of this particular game, I do not know the heart or intentions of the coaches and/or players and parents. I think 100-0 is a bit much. Perhaps the league is at fault for putting two teams of such differing skills together. Perhaps it was an oversight. I can’t see how being a part of a team that “slaughtered” another team can be satisfying. To go as far as saying it is a game and the purpose is to win … at all costs … and to drive up the score … at all costs… not sure I would go there either.
Most of those kids will not go on to professional sports. School sports is about character development, skill development, learning how to work together. If the only purpose of sports is to win, then I think there are many learning opportunities that will be desperately missed.
my .02
Well, many of you know, I’m from Dallas, so this is more based on my family’s personal experience with both of these schools.
I deleted what I was going to post about this yesterday, because after reading the original article, specifically, the Dallas Academy coaches’ perspective, I realized I was off-target. I was mad that the article was spawned by a box score read in a paper, not personal observation. I was mad because many people thought that Dallas Academy, a school for kids with learning differences, needed special treatment or was getting “beat-up” by a power-house Christian School, when in reality, Covenant is really a made up of middle-class kids, whose parents want a Christian Education for their kids. Bernard is right, competitive High School sports is about winning.
My daughter played b-ball a few years back for an organized Christian Homeschool group that played against both of these teams. If you read Coach Grimes’ rebuttal, he was right – they were not very talented a few years back, and my daughter, who has Dysgraphia (as do many of the Dallas Academy kids, thus my “anger” against special treatment), played great in both games (she was a post with many defensive rebounds). Covenant has very few girls to draw from – 30 high school girls total, so they’refortunate to get 8 at all! One of the girls has never played before, so when he rotates in a bench player, that doesn’t mean he’s giving them the ball, just that they are “in” and a “better” player is out. Both of these schools are in the right district (of the Texas Association of Private and Parochial Schools – TAPPS), which follows the public school method of groupsing based upon school size, thus a “logical” talent pool. TAPPS District 3-2A has only 6 schools.
But winning is not about humiliation. The box score in the paper did not report any individual stats, so the Dallas Academy coaches’ comments are based on the “book” kept by their team – while the Covenant school did drop out of a full-court press, as Coach Grimes stated, their main Point Guard repeatedly stole the ball at half court and did lay-ups, ultimately scoring 48 of the 100 points. That’s pressuring the opponent, even if it was a “zone” defense. That’s a great tactic if there is no fullcourt press, and you’re up against a tough team.
Yes there are kids who can see the score and may not want to obliterate the dignity of the other team. Yes there are coaches who recognize that a “W” is a “W” no matter the margin so they instill rules to try and minimize the blow-out (I read in this Sunday’s Dallas Morning News about a different coach who instituted a 5-pass-before-any-shot rule when they were running over an opponent).
But you also have the human factor to consider – kids and/or coaches who may not often win, but get the chance to make a “milestone” score – breaking the 100-pt barrier.
But to me, the biggest problem was not the kids, who were doing what they were instructed – it was the parents in the stands, cheering their kids to keep going to hit the 100-point milestone – not realizing what a huge oportunity for mercy they were missing. Yes, the coach should have recognized the sportsmanship aspect and done things differently, but the parents should not have fueled that fire.
Sorry for my soap-box, Bill.
I agree with many that the the full court press is kinda silly when you are up this much. It is incredibly disrespectful. However, I also believe it isn’t the job of the winning team to stop itself from scoring. It is the job of the other team to play defense.
If I was on the losing side, I wouldn’t want the other team to lay down by playing with one hand tied behind their backs or anything, but I would definitely be angry if they were purposely trying to beat us by 100 (which it looks like was the case here). If this would have been a guys game, I bet some punches would have flown at some point.
Would I have fired the coach? After the email to the paper, I sure would have. That kind of insubordination has no place being aired to the public. Had he not sent the email, I probably would not have fired him, but would have had a nice little talk about what the school represents and how we go about winning and losing.
I think the coach definitely has some issues with being a good sport, but he is not a bad coach for winning by a large margin. He is a bad coach for being insubordinate and purposely trying to embarrass the other school.
I also agree with another poster that the object of sports is to win. When I see all these fluffy people in CA want to have their kids play sports where they don’t score so that no one wins or loses, I get a bit angry. Kids need to learn how to win and lose graciously. The problem with this coach is that he was leading troops into battle, not kids into competition.
Sorry, Steve, my clairvoyance failed me! I’ll still read yours, don’t worry!
Can I just say “Ditto” to everyone’s comments and your post and call that my contribution?
Thanks, I’m glad I was able to have an input.
Karma: wow! It was like they couldn’t win for losing. I admire the players for their desire to play “fair” and not beat the tar out of the other teams. Your story puts a different slant on things. Thanks.
techgeek: well put. I tend to agree with your last paragraph also. I reckon I want to leave the “macho/machette” idea for the college & pro ranks. Thanks for your .02 worth
Will: my point was stated well by you. I do not have a problem with the players (although I may have one with the point guard) but with the parents (Remember my reference to umpiring?) and yes the coach. Thanks for the box. 😉
Michael: being that you also are from Texas it was good to hear your perspective also. The insubordination of the coach is a major issue for sure. Going back too the Scripture I used: how can he teach his team humility and respect for authority when he doesn’t? Thanks for your contribution in this.
Bernard: you obviously have hair. My bride would have told me to rub the crystal ball and foresee the future. 🙂
DJ: probably the wisest of us all. Glad you could contribute.
Thanks for your love. Keep pedaling for Jesus.
You are more than welcome Kary. Used part of The Fine Line in Sunday’s sermon. Great book!