We do it for whom?

Written by cycleguy on February 4th, 2009

I am going to do some thinking out loud in this post and you are invited to listen in.   :)   Not sure if you will find much that will be earth-shattering but at least you will have a chance to weigh in when I am finished.

One of the reasons I believe we (from here on “we” means the church fellowship and individual Christ-followers) struggle is that we either have or get a somewhat skewed view of what church is.  Ask the average person and church is what you “do” or “go to” on Sunday morning.   We have locked ourselves into a place where we have boxed “church” into a building.  I, for one, am happy to see a generation that is “getting it.”  Many are grasping the idea of kingdom living, a life lived outside four walls is what matters. We are beginning to understand that living for ourselves is not at all what Jesus had in mind when He established the church.  That is not dismissing what takes place at the Sunday morning (or whenever) worship experience.  On the contrary, we need to see that the whole reason we have that experience is to create an environment where people-both those who are Christ-followers and those who are far from God-can receive ministry.  But this ministry must never be for us.  We are to be filled and empowered to “be” ministers.

There is also a second reason.  Dietrich Bonhoeffer once said “the church is only the church when it exists for others.”  Now that is one powerful statement!!  I reckon the question I must ask is this: when will we ever get it?  Like all fellowships, we (OVCF) are experiencing growing pains. As of this writing it is not those caused  by unemployment and layoffs and lack of funds.  It is not that which comes from trying to maintain a facility that stretches our reserves.  Honestly, and I am not going to sugar-coat this…we are struggling with the music issue.  How is it done?  Should we have a “worship team” concept?  How contemporary (translate: rocky) should our music be?  These are not easy questions to answer.  I must confess that I am prejudiced.  You are talking about a “rocker” here so that ought to tell you what side of the fence I come down on.  But the issue is a bigger one: who are we trying to reach and are we?  The age old question: what is your business and how’s business?  I can worship in any venue and with any genre of music but that is not what begs discussion here.  It goes back to this: what is worship and who is it for?  Or WHOM is it for?  I got that answer down pat.  The more important point is this: who are we trying to reach?  Will Mancini in his book Church Unique asks some hard questions.  Like, what keeps your church focused externally?  He gives the following example:  who do you think is the most important person to the Coca Cola company?  The consumer?  Which one?  The Coke drinker?  Nope-the Pepsi drinker.  (Ed note: I am a Diet Dr. Pepper fan so they will not get me).  Then he lays it on the line: the most important people are those outside the church.  He quotes Neil Cole who said, “If you want to reach people for Jesus, you’re going to have to sit in the smoking section.”

The danger that our fellowship and others face- be they contemporary or traditional or missional or emerging or whatever else they may want to call themselves- is that it gets way too easy to focus on peripheral issues and not on what matters…leading people who are far from God to a relationship with Jesus.  As a leader it is important that I stay focused and in turn keep the other leaders and the fellowship focused on what truly matters.    If I may borrow a phrase from Mancini: ” to be an effective tool we must stop the ‘gravity inward’ of Christian fellowship.”  And therein lies one of the greatest challenges a pastor, or any leader faces.  Keeping and maintaining focus. Perhaps some will say that the crux of the matter is whether people have bought into the mission and vision of the church.  Good point (and I know that).  Further point: how do you know when that happens?  Isolated instances here and there may confirm some do but leading those who have their own agenda  quite frankly develops into a battle.  I see it sort of like two oxen in a yoke with each trying to go its own way. I sometimes do that with God.  I sometimes see it in the church.

Now…please don’t misunderstand this post. It is not a put-down of the fellowship I pastor. I love these people.  I consider this whole discussion we are having as growing pains that the enemy can use to derail this train.  What I am doing is thinking out loud.  And perhaps by thinking out loud I can get some input from outsiders that will give me a different perspective.  So…have at it.  I would like to hear your thoughts.  All comments are welcome but no attacks on individuals (especially me).  :)

 

15 Comments so far ↓

  1. Heidi Reed says:

    So this is about worship at your church? Am I taking that right? At the church I am in love with we do a very contemporary style of music for worship. Not everyone likes it, but it’s not for us really. Worship is for God. Period. But the type of music used will draw or repel. I think the focus in choosing music should be for the “smoking section”. Our church has grown leaps and bounds since it started almost 5 years ago. Huge growth and it’s still growing. Is it all the music? No. Hardly. But the music helps. There are times when I’m worshiping God at church that I can envision David leaping through the streets like a daggone lunatic — because that is exactly how I feel. In heaven, you will find me in the mosh pit. Yeah baby!!

    Heidi Reed

  2. cycleguy says:

    Yes it is Heidi. That is why I am putting it on the blog-to get thoughts and ideas from those who are outside our fellowship. Have to admit that I would fit in with your style of worship. Even at 56. :) Thanks for coming by and commenting. One thing: if you are leaping make sure someone else is holding Jaxon. ;)

  3. Desertjim says:

    Are there Organ Stop Pizza’s in Indiana? Maybe there’s only one – in Mesa, AZ. At Organ Stop Pizza, people go there to eat pizza and also listen to a guy play songs, mostly old songs – “Roll Out The Barrel” and the like, on a HUGE organ.

    Well, there and old movies are about the only place where I hear songs from the 20′s, 30′s and 40′s. Except church.

    Why? Why do we hold on so hard to those things?

    It’s fun to post a video from the 77′s or an old group like that but I’d never recommend we play an old 77′s song at church – its like a foreign language or an inside joke (I’m not calling the 77′s a joke but you know what I mean). Outsiders don’t get it. And that was good music from the 80′s. I’m not even going back to the 20′s, 30′s or 40′s or 1400′s.

    My opinion is that there are still plenty of churches that hold on to the old liturgy and old hymns for the people who want to hold on to attend. There still aren’t enough churches who want to reach out and be an attractor to the needy.

    Hold your ground in love. I’m praying for OVCF.

  4. Why not have a worship-off?

    Set aside 3 weeks for each the various styles you’re considering -”Praise” pop style, contemporary rockin’ music, or even more traditional – and let the congragation decide? Since you and your congregation have already been talking about it, then pray for a week or so, then run the blocks of styles, let the congragation pray to seek what type of musical worship they want to offer God, and while you won’t necessarily please everyone, you’ll get a lot of buy-in by involving them in the process. It’ll be a lot better recieved than a “hey we’re changing the music to ______ and that’s the way it is” type of approach.

    :D

  5. Gary Brown says:

    Bill,
    You heard our style of music when you were at The Sticks conf. in November it is upbeat and loud. Worship is not about the music we are to worship OUR SAVIOR with our actions every day and music is just one way to do it. It gets people to engage in a church that normally would not come to church, its a way to reach them for Christ.

    Gary

  6. solitaryman says:

    Believe it or not, I actually prefer a more liturgical approach to worship. I played the louder stuff at church because people were responding well to it. I’ve never been one that has connected with God during a more contemporary music setting, but it’s about God and about who we’re trying to reach. I prefer a quieter worship experience, but it wasn’t and isn’t about me at all. So if anyone complains that I was just playing that type of music because I wanted it and liked it, you can set them straight.

  7. cycleguy says:

    DJ: no never heard of those. I have been in places where stuff like that happens though. Will be interesting to see where it goes.

  8. cycleguy says:

    Will: not sure that is a real good idea. Voting is not something we do. But I can also see it as a breeding ground for trouble and division. My thoughts. Have you seen this done before?

  9. cycleguy says:

    Gary: Yeah I remember New Hope. I too like it loud. :)

  10. cycleguy says:

    solitaryman: Liturgical? Good for you!! :) But you are right. IT is not about us.

  11. Not in a church setting, but was just sharing the “thinking out loud” approach. I can foresee your point – fast forward to hear” “Well since my way didn’t win, I’m certainly not going to listen to that music. I’m outta here.” It doesn’t matter what “that” music is, it’s not thier preference.

    We actually have two worship experiences at our church, but one message – the pop/praise music is up at our “Live” service (where the pastor is physically) in the main building, and our “Epoch” service down the hill in our Youth building for the contemporary, slightly harder music. The message from “Live” is broadcast on big-screens over at Epoch. Two worships, one message.

    I realize that we’re very fortunate to have that luxury, though. Maybe you can double your work and hold two services? :P

  12. Sorry, I forgot to close the Hyperlink with a “” after the word church.

    Feel free to edit it, and delete this comment. Thanks,

  13. cycleguy says:

    Will just leave it and if you want to do the hyperlink then go ahead. Thanks for the contribution Will

  14. Desertjim says:

    One more thing on this, I think we have gotten off the subject with talking about what style of music to play. By talking about music, we have returned the focus on us (except Solitaryman, of course, he’s the martyr of the group).

    I think the bigger question is what are the people that don’t go to your church expecting and what would make them return next Sunday if they came?

    I know first and foremost, the message has to be on target.

    Next, I don’t know. Maybe reaching out to people during the week. But, honestly, I think you’d need to ask people from your own community why they don’t go to church and see if you can incorporate any of those suggestions.

    It sounds like you guys are getting new people to come. It would be interesting to get there feedback as to why they came and why they came back and do more of that.

    It would also be good to report those reasons to the congregation and they will see the purpose if they don’t already.

  15. cycleguy says:

    That is a good question DJ. The folks here in this community are such a diverse group that it may actually be hard to figure that out initially. It would take some study and prayer for sure. Unfortunately you can only get feedback if they return the cards we send in a letter. That is, if they let us know they were here. :) But thanks for the ideas.

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