Perfect! Who Me?

Written by cycleguy on January 18th, 2011

Funny how time gets away from you.  I know you have said, “Man, how time flies.”  Here is a more famous one these days: “I wish I had more hours in a day.”  Aaaah yeah.  Like it would make that much difference.  I figure if I can’t make good use of the 24 God has designed, what in the world would make me think I will do any better with say…30?   Well…time has gotten away from me this week.  I started out the week by saying I was reading What is God REALLY Like by Craig Groeschel and that I would post some thoughts based on what I read.  So far?  Nada.  Zip.  And here it is: time for the post on The Hole In Our Gospel (THIOG).  The topic for this week is based on Richard’s chapter entitled “Why We’re Not So Popular Anymore.”  Hmmmm that actually fits  with one of the thoughts I had planned on blogging about from Craig’s book.  So…maybe I can combine them…  Yep, makes sense to me.  🙂

One of my favorite books has been No Perfect People Allowed by John Burke.   John is the pastor of Gateway Church in Austin, TX.  I was so captured by his book,  I read it twice-almost back to back- then used it to form a basis for a series of sermons and small group study back in 11/08.  It is fitting then that my first comment/post from Craig’s book be one made by John:

If we’re going to create this environment where messy, broken people can come together and let God grow them into the people he intended, we have to become like God, who is merciful.  We have to let go of judging by external appearances; it’s not the external sacrifices we can give but a heart growing in love and mercy that God wants us to offer to him, because God is a God of mercy.

Gotta admit: that rang my bell.  One of the things Richard Stearns points out in THIOG is in too many cases the church has lost its influence by its negative stand.  We are anti-this and anti-that.  Our list of “don’ts” far outlasts our list of “do’s.”  Admit it: isn’t the church often seen as angry and upset on just about everything?  While I may believe that certain moral behaviors are wrong, do I really need to go around shouting it out and condemning those who participate?  Do you really think that God looks at a person and says, “You have a tattoo. Sorry.”  “You have a body piercing. Sorry.”  “You have had an abortion. Sorry.”  “You are gay person.  Sorry.”  NO! Any person willing to come to Him, to take the step of faith and cross that line into His arms, is forgiven!!!  Clean!  Did I say forgiven????  Yes, I did.

But.to.hear.some.Christians.talk.such.is.not.the.case.   “Clean up first, then come to Jesus.”  “Go straight, then come to Jesus.”  What kind of poppycock is that?   I mean, for crying out loud!  Didn’t we used to sing the song (when we sang hymns) “Just as I am without one plea…O Lamb of God I come, I come?”  While singing all 100 verses of that hymn was tedious, 🙂  the truth of it stood out.  “Come as you are.  Just come.”  But many have added a little extra to that: ” He will take you as you are, except if you do or are ( fill in the blank).”  Richard is right in his book when he writes, “Jesus showed us another way. Don’t hate the sinner, but do show him love. Don’t be judgmental, but do offer forgiveness. ”

God is not interested in our conformity to outward standards.  Jesus showed mercy to messy people.  Can we do any less?  If we did, we would not be losing our credibility.  (Note: I do not want anyone to think that while doing this we ought to throw away our theological convictions of sin.  On the contrary, it is because we believe in the power of sin in an unregenerated person, that we ought to teach them (not beat them) about the love of Jesus and His forgiveness.

Those are some of my thoughts.  What are yours?  Feel free to express your thoughts on this topic and be part of the discussion.  My friends, Jason and Sarah, are the co-hosts of this discussion.  For other authors, check out Sarah’s blog.

 

44 Comments so far ↓

  1. jeff says:

    Wouldn’t it be great if Churches were filled with people who actually did live according to the teachings of Jesus. Where they actually lived what they say they believe.
    I don’t want to be loved or forgiven by someone who I think has less compassion, less self interest, and more obstinance than I have. A lot of church going Bible thumping believers are quite self centered and arrogant about themselves. And historically, as a group, have supported some very self serving anti- humane practices.
    Need I mention the Presbyterians position on eradicating Indians, the Morman’s position on “Blacks have no souls”, the evangelicals position that gays have no rights, the Catholics position that child abuse is better than a stain on the church.
    If organized Christians are going to be relevant or believable they need to speak up and take a stand againt the groups that call themselves Christian while promoting an arrogant form of bigotry and hate in the name of God.
    Other than that they are just a bunch of hot wind that think they aren’t going to die when they die.

  2. Tom Raines says:

    Bill, I agree with just sticking to love and being humbled by our own sins. May we show the good news of what His love and His way has done in our lives. Me must first meet people where they are as Jesus did with us before preaching at them. Just one man’s opinion, thanks!

  3. jasonS says:

    I too love that book by John Burke. So powerful! I think we forget sometimes that it’s the Holy Spirit’s place to convict the world of sin, not ours. If our lives were shining more brightly with His love and forgiveness and grace, we wouldn’t need to beat people over the head with rules and condemnation. It all starts in us and that’s all I have control over. I can surrender and watch Him work in and through me.

    Thanks Bill. Love the honesty and openness. Great post!

    • cycleguy says:

      So true jason. It is our job to get the message to the people, it is the Spirit’s job to convict and convert. Thanks for your kind words.

  4. Are you reading my mind Bill? Ae we shadowing each other in our post this evening?
    You know my thoughts on this…powerful truth!

  5. Bill,

    I read your post and something hit me that had not occurred to me before.

    What if, (and this is a big what if), we stopped trying to tell people about Jesus and His love and forgiveness and instead told people,

    “Listen. Bring your life to Jesus. Simple as that. See what He will do with it. Bring your disbelief, your hatred, your anger, your confusion, your contempt for Christians, your questions, your hurts, your painful memories, bring it all. I guarantee when you do, Jesus will show you something wonderful. Come see that my Jesus is good, and He has what it is you are seeking even now.”

    So we take out all the love and forgiveness that we sometimes so vainly try to relay to folks, and we put it on Jesus, for He is capable and able to make Himself known far better than you or I could. And He is not a “sometimes” God. He is all the time.

    I can think of no other person I am so willing to introduce to those who are unsaved than Jesus. People don’t need to know me. They need to meet Him.

    Just a thought, not a sermon.

  6. Vince says:

    great to hear stories around the No Perfect People Allowed book

  7. Bill,

    Sorry…forgot to add:

    How does a person truly repent (of their evil ways and then prove this repentance) before Salvation, or “clean up” before Salvation?

    Isn’t that sorta the point behind Salvation?

    I repented by changing my mind, then I was brought into covenant with Jesus. Next I was called to prove this repentance by my actions, but not so that I could “keep” my Salvation. I wanted to prove my repentance because I want to please my Father.

    • cycleguy says:

      That is my point Donald. The point of salvation is being forgiven. Not forgiven then saved. Thanks for adding to your earlier comment.

  8. Jim F says:

    I like to focus on what we are for rather than what we are against. I am with you on this – allow the broken to come in all messy and let God clean them up through His working in their lives. I have the book by Burke – it is next in line to be read on the shelf I keep the books I want to read. The way we are – if it impacted you greatly – I am sure it will me too.

    Have a blessed day!

    • cycleguy says:

      That, my friend, is what I was trying to write. The focus should be on the pro not the con. And I suspect it will impact you. 🙂 thanks for coming by today.

  9. Most of us – and often this includes me, sadly – don’t want “to create this environment where messy, broken people can come together and let God grow them into the people he intended…”

    We want a place to come and feel good on Sunday morning. We want a place that will straighten up the despicable world around us. We want a place where nobody cusses or tells dirty jokes but instead criticizes the people who cuss or tell dirty jokes.

    All too often, we don’t want those people involved in our church, because they might cuss in front of our kids, or the newspaper might report that we welcome gay people to our church, or the governor of Alabama might tell us that we are allowing non-brothers and sisters into our fellowship.

    Or whatever.

    We don’t really care if our churches are places for people to meet God or not.

    At least that’s the way we come across. I think at our core, we know we often have the wrong perspective but we don’t know how to fix it without looking like liberals, and, after all, liberals aren’t really Christians.

    • cycleguy says:

      Man Bernard! You hit the nail on the head. I tend to agree that we “expect” church to be a safe environment where all is right with God’s world. Messy people who cuss & tell dirty jokes? No way! But as you point out: church should be the place where broken & messy people are invited and welcomed. Thanks for the good comment.

  10. Desert Jim says:

    We don’t church shop or hop but have attended a few churches due to moving to different parts of the country. God has really taken good care of our family because the last two churches we have belonged to (I guess last three if you include our involvement with Lifechurch.tv via the internet) have truly lived up to this standard.

    Specifically spending more time talking about what we are for than what we are against and creating an environment where you can come to Christ as you are and let Him make the changes.

    But, as Jeff describes, unfortunately that is not always the case. I would not put up with anything else and wish all churches were as you described. They are worth the search.

    Thanks for the post Bill!

    • cycleguy says:

      Great to have you Jim! Your middle paragraph speaks to what we should be trying to do. Churches that express this are worth the search. Thanks for finding the time to come by.

  11. Stan says:

    I also love Burke’s book. Very powerful. I need to re-read it just to refresh myself on this topic. I couldn’t agree with you more. Missional people say, “Christians must preach the Gospel to themselves everyday.” If we ever feel like we are above the Gospel or deserving of the Gospel, then others are not and that forms the foundation of our judgment. Great post my friend. Thank you. Mind if I steal the idea for my blog and write my own version at some point? =)

    • cycleguy says:

      Stan: Tullian Tchividjian has been saying what are saying. The Gospel is for Christians as well. Feel free to steal away. 🙂 Thanks.

      • Stan says:

        Just looked him up. Haven’t heard of him before. I’ll have to start following him.

        • cycleguy says:

          He is Billy Graham’s grandson. He has also written Unfashionable, Do I Know God? and Surprised by Grace (Jonah). All are worth looking into Stan. Glad you checked him out.

  12. Jason says:

    Absolutely…come to Christ and experience forgiveness. It really is that simple.

    I just tire sometimes of the way the pendulum with Christians has to be at one extreme or the other. Either it’s the “anti-” side that is negative about everything or the “pro-” side where they don’t ever talk about sin. I love the fact Jesus is both truth and grace. I just wish we could all mix them as well as He did!

    • cycleguy says:

      Your idea of pendulum speaks true jason. Imagine if we did mix truth and grace as well as jesus did. What a difference we would make! Thanks Jason for coming by.

  13. Michael says:

    Bill, you really hit the core of what I believe my calling is.

  14. Dustin says:

    I’ll have to check out Burke’s book. THIOG has been powerful for me… and I’m only halfway through.

    I think you’re spot on. That has to be the core message that us followers of Christ communicate: we’re not perfect. I’m guilty of the opposite for sure, sometimes. I’ll expect things from my wife and kids, but don’t change things myself. Extending mercy and grace to them on a daily basis is just as important… because the fact of the matter is, I’ve been extended the same from God.

    • cycleguy says:

      Dustin: thanks for coming by my site. I have checked out yours and will go back to comment some and then put you in my Google Reader. You really should check out Burke’s book. THIOG is a great book. Glad you have been moved by it. You are certainly right. We aren’t perfect (but we act or talk like we are). God’s mercy and grace must never be forgotten. Thanks again for coming by.

  15. Ani says:

    Hi Bill,

    This will be my last time here because I had to make an important decision after telling God on Sunday that the day was His and He could do with it as He wanted and that I wanted His will to be done in my life.
    After that God spoke to me to get off the internet permanently and get occupied off line with my own community here. I already felt this before but that day I knew it was needed to make the final decision and to leave all behind on the internet. So at the end of this week I will unsubscribe all blogs.

    About your blogpost. I just love these kind of posts because it speaks to my heart. I was always different but never felt different. I always knew I was worthy and with God I was even more sure. I’m so aware of myself that I’m not without fault and flaws so I’m aware of His grace that I can come back to Him time after time, failure after failure. How can say that others who are different from me don’t deserve that same grace and mercy from God. I’ve heard that God also loves the people we hate. Because He is God. I also feel I need to show Jesus at my work. I mean to show the real Jesus. That He is cool and He loves all kind of people. And they are welcome in any shape, colour, size, race. He loves them all. I find it very arrogant to think that others don’t have the right. I want to tell them they kicked God from His thrown and sat themselves on that thrown and took the authority from God and start to judge people. Well, when Jesus is back He the real judgement will happen and I don’t think they will like that.

    Let’s all kindly tell each other to love one another. Love God and others.

    Take care Bill, you have been like a father to me. Love you and your daughter too. Say hi to my zzzweeet zister Zeee.hehe. 🙂

    • cycleguy says:

      Ani: my heart is sad for me but happy for you. I have enjoyed getting to “know” you through my blog. I am SO GLAD you would choose to be obedient to God rather than continue the net. You are right in your assessment of God. I will miss you but pray that God will bless your socks off. Love you and will say hi to Zee for you.

    • Zee says:

      🙂 tee hee, thanks for the “hi,” Ani 🙂

  16. I have been trying to get here all day and keep getting side tracked.

    We are called to be an example of God’s love which has transformed our lives from sin and death to forgiveness and life. We are called to love because God loved us first. If we fail to love, we do not know God.

    There is no room left to hate people when we dwell in God. As others pointed out, forgiveness and transformation come from God. Our role is to allow people to see God through and in us.

    • cycleguy says:

      Glad you were able to make it by Dusty. Your thoughts are a good way to put all the comments into one bag. Thanks.

    • Ani says:

      Really, Dusty aren’t we from the same Father? 🙂

      Cause I totally agree with you and I love you.

      • cycleguy says:

        And that is what makes it so cool Ani that we can connect even though a pond apart…all because of our connection to the Father. 🙂

      • That we are Ani! I love you too and like Bill will miss your visits and comments… but I completely understand and support the direction you are going as you follow God’s leading on your life.

        Know that we will continue to hold you in our hearts and prayers.

  17. lindaM says:

    Hi Bill,
    I’m in Calgary today and going to stay overnight with my cousin who lives here. I came to the city this morning for a business appointment. That’s why I’m late making a commment on this post.

    I think part of what has occured in the church is that the Holy Spirit has not been disciplining people in the church for whatever reason.
    Because of this situation it is difficult for the church to judge or exclude others because of their sin. However, the Bible does say that a little leaven leavens the whole lump. Sin matters. Just like an obedient life matters.

    My thinking about gays coming to church is that when they come to stay so to speak, the purpose has to be to make changes. If a gay person wants to come to church and remain a gay person I would tend to disagree. They don’t need to be in church. They have no desire to be obedient to God. They can live their sin outside of the church.

    If they have no heart or desire for God why do they want to be in church? I am thinking that the way to reach people is outside of the church first.

    Messy people are welcome. If they are looking to make some changes. If they have a desire to get to know God. Otherwise, we could have alot of unsafe people populating the church, being in familiar and often contact with our children, etc. The purpose of the church is the gathering of people to worship God in holiness and truth.

    • cycleguy says:

      Linda: glad you came by even though you might it is late commenting. I would disagree on some of your points although you make a good one when you suggest that messy people are welcome if they are looking for changes. I share your concern about unsafe people although I think proper measures need to be in place to curb their involvement and to make sure our kids are safe. We are planning on taking proper measures, as a preventative rather than reactive measure. I would disagree with you that messy people are only welcome if they are going to make changes. I welcome them to keep coming in the hopes that they will hear the gospel and decide it is time for a change. Any one else want to weigh in?

  18. the problem with being known by our list of antis and don’ts is that no matter how great and noble they may be, they still can come across as negative people.

    • cycleguy says:

      Good point Charlie. The law may be right but to use it as a “can’t” or “don’t” still has us coming across as negative people. Thanks for coming by and commenting.