I attended the Elephant Room on Wednesday in Louisville, KY and had planned on sharing some thoughts about it in this post. However, it dawned on me that I would be getting home late Wednesday night and would probably definitely crawl quickly into bed when I got home, so the last thing I will want to do is stay up and write a post. I will save that for a post or two next week. So, I thought I would write a post as a PS. of this post from Tuesday by using a quote/section of the narrative to make a point.
To set the stage (without giving too much of it away): Michael, the main character, has just found out where his assignment will be. It was not what/where he thought it was going to be. As he talked to his sponsor about it, the following conversation ensued:
Michael, the future of our church is in grave doubt. If there is a future, then you and others like you are that future. It will be better for you to be on the periphery than at the center because the center is rotting and collapsing. The future of the church is at the edges, and there you’ll find a willingness to abandon what’s dead, to meet the spiritual need, to fearlessly preach the gospel-that is our way to survival.
There has been a lot of talk lately about research that has been done, and how the young people are leaving the church in droves. The 15-29 are fed up with “organized religion” and are exiting the church. Research has also found they are fed up with…are you ready for this?…entertainment and being entertained when they do go. I about blew what was in my mouth all over my keyboard when I read that. What an indictment against today’s media/entertainment oriented churches that think “give ’em hype, give ’em loud music, and they will come.” Ironically, the article I read also said they were heading back to churches that preached the Bible and included some hymns in their worship. (Time for a Gibbs slap here). Do you mean to tell me that all those who have been saying, “Preach the Bible. Be true to the Word. Don’t pander to the masses” may actually be right?
Yes, ladies and gentlemen, that is exactly what I am saying. Deemed old-fashioned by the “hip dudes,” Biblical preaching is what they are craving. Connecting with God in worship is what they are looking for. As Michael’s sponsor was saying, the center (the “in” group) has lost its way. It is those who maintain biblical integrity, who fearlessly preach the gospel, who are the future of the church. Even the video that went viral last week missed the point if you look closely.
Perhaps the best way to close this is with the closing of that conversation:
You are a remarkable young man. You will do great things, Michael, not as the world defines them, but great in the way God defines them.
Well spoken words. What are your thoughts about the future of the church? Do you agree or disagree with my thoughts? Feel free to express your thoughts.
By the way: one of the comments asked where I found the stats about young people leaving the church. You can find that article here:
You are exactly right. When you take away all the slick production and all of the smoke and mirrors, it is the gospel that is what matters. Many times we may think that we crave or need different things. But it always comes down to the fact that what we need is God! Nothing else matters. We can try to make it more modern or more politically correct or acceptable to different generations, but it is God’s word and no one can change that.
So true Sele. it is the Gospel that matters. Nothing else matters. Thanks for your comment.
For the people who stay in church, you’re right on the money. We’re going to see a large break in the Christian community with people who tailor their gospel to what makes the world happy and that will come from the “hip” crowd.
I believe your right jason. There will be a break and hopefully some of the “hip” crowd will wake up. Their influence will be huge. Thanks.
Hi Bill,
I think the future of the church depends on what people decide to do.
If we look at the OT example of the nation of Israel, when they turned from God and started placing their trust, hope and allegiance elsewhere, God left them to their own devices.
When the people got into difficulty and they were rather helpless against their enemies and called on God in sincerity and truth they were delivered. However, we must know that scripture says that there will come a time when God will not suffer the fickleness of men anymore and opportunity will come to an end.
We are seeing a lot of uprising of peoples in the world. A disatisfaction about what leaders have done in the past with their position and powers. A growing doubt that the current governing systems or monetary systems can meet the needs of people. The system is like a monster that cannot be healed. The more money that is put into it to help it survive the less benefit that seems to come out of it. The benefit is gobbled up and disappears. Where it goes nobody knows…..(at least not the honest people) but the current systems seem insatiable.
The talk I’ve heard in the news is that the current situations will demand change in the not too far future. For example, our health care system in Canada.
We are hearing in the news talk about how to change things about these systems. How to make a system that will function in today’s world.
For the christian we are not looking to make a system ourselves. I believe we are following God and he will be the creator, the upholder of what he creates and the lifter up of our heads. Our system will be devine.
It is not just in the world that we see the dissatisfaction, Linda. it is especially true in the church. The current exodus shows us that. We have to stop the bleeding. Thanks.
I tend to get my facts and statistics from the Barna Group. They seem to employ the better methodologies. And the conclusion is that there is a mass exodus of the younger generation away from church. They are leaving and not coming back.
I have not read the information you indicate that they are heading back to churches that have biblical preaching and hymns. I do not think there are many churches that would admit to being “not biblical”. Even the very legalistic ones have convinced themselves they are biblical.
The country club model of bricks and mortar, programs designed for the members, socializing opportunities for small groups, et. et. is neither biblical nor relevant to todays socially connected, well informed, multi culturally tolerant younger generation.
I think the business model of most churches needs to drastically change to be relevant. The teachings of Jesus on the other hand will always be relevant. Somewhere along the line churches have disconnected from those teachings.
My information will be included in the next response (Jim’s comment) since he asked for the place I found it. I so agree with much of what you say. Okay…most of what you say. Thanks.
Jeff you say here,
‘socially connected, well informed, multi culturally tolerant younger generation’.
Is this what we have in North America? We are multi culturally tolerant because we will be put in jail or fined if we are not. The word tolerant is much different than the word ‘friend’ or ‘equal’ or ‘partner’. Are we really accepting or do we just have to ‘tolerate’ things because of the way our laws are being enforced in our country.
Well informed? Maybe the thirties and upward populations. The younger generations are embedded in fantasy. Electronic games that seem to be frivolous. Kids have been morphed into the culture of entertainment and of being consumed by every new electronic gadget and software that comes along.
It’s ok if they’re getting something meaty and godly from it, but they’re not. They’re learning something entirely different it seems. Silliness, occult, witchcraft, ungodly and horrific graphics. This is their regular day by day diet of materials. And they are relating to what they are viewing by picking out avatars that they role play as themselves in videos and games etc. These avatars and characters in these games and videos are not of the image of Christ. Quite the contrary.
Can faith in Jesus Christ be supported in such an environment and learning experience?
Socially connected, yes, with their peers. Texting phones are a part of the physical anatomy of the under twenty crowd. They talk and text, they walk and text. Texting supercedes face to face conversing. The young person will say, ‘sorry, I’m a getting a message’ and look at their phone and text back. Conversations are interrupted and can’t continue it seems until they have completed this task.
Most of my interactions are with the over 20 but still younger generation. My personal experience is quite a bit different than yours. I am impressed by the young people I know. They are not politically correct because they fear jail time. They truly look past color, ethnicity, age and sex. they interact without those barriers to suppress their discourse. They are not in a video game induced fantasy world. Some are quite creative and mature. The ones I know are also very respectful, at least to me.
(Some editing by Bill)
We do here what you are told these days you are not to do. We do Hymns and worship chorus – we lean more traditional than contemporary – which is not my preference at all. We have no screens or powerpoints – not because I do not want them. I preach expository messages and I am heavy on the Bible during the message. You know what is happening? We have had younger families joining consistently. I say this – not to toot our horn – but to say that we prove the stats you read.
By the way – if you remember where you found the stats could you email me the link?
Thank and I am interested in what you learned at Elephant Room yesterday!
After some looking (I knew I had seen it but not sure where) I found the link. http://www.crosswalk.com/blogs/religion-today-blog/nearly-60-percent-of-young-adults-leaving-church.html Hope that helps. I will write some next week about what I learned. 🙂 Thanks Jim.
I can see your point. I haven’t done the research to know the stats but I’ve also heard that there are some churches where the 20-30 crowd is diving into leadership and service.
I will agree that the Bible has to be the foundation of the church. Despite the music, worship style, and volume. Folks will argue that stuff till the cows come home. But if you are preaching the Bible and it’s Truth – then people will stay.
Another thing I’ve heard too is that a lot of churches are hesitant in giving leadership to the 20 something crowd. They are not “mature” enough or they are too “young”. Sure a 22 year old will make mistakes…but so will a 42 or 62 year old. Give ’em some ownership in the church and mentor them in leadership – that way the next church’s next generation will be solid!
You speak well here Craig. Lots of good stuff here. I have no disagreement, especially about preaching the Bible and giving leadership to the younger gen. They have to learn somewhere.
The state of the church can be blamed on many factors. None which make sense to go into detail here. However, the biggest factor is that we have failed horribly at laying aside our differences to worship the King of diversity. We let stupid little arguments seperate us. X person said something I don’t agree with (or that hurt me), I’m leaving the church. Leadership didn’t implement the plan I suggest, I’m leaving. I think you get the point.
I long for the day when the church is of “one mind”. That doesn’t mean they agree on everything, it just means that they were willing to put their differences and pride aside for the sake of the Gospel… you know, the MOST important reason.
The Kingdom of men rule within the Kingdom of God. Maybe what we need is a little “shaking up”. Who knows.
As has been said Moe: “tell us how you really feel!” 🙂 You are right on the money with this. I, too, long for the day when all is put aside for the sake of the Gospel. Thanks.
hate I didn’t get to attend the elephant room. Enjoyed reading the twitter posts and the blog posts I’ve seen so far!
I plan to post at least once next week about some of the statements made. I know it is sort of late but time is a factor. Thanks for coming by Jonathan.
Bill, I think that’s the problem. All of the methods are ok. But a lot of these churches become centered on the methods. They don’t have that biblical preaching. They don’t give a sense of the history of our faith. They act they have a corner on it and it all began with them. We have 2,000 years worth of history that got us where we are. We can’t throw all of that out.
Certainly can’t disagree with you Larry. Too often methods trump message. Thanks.
I would suspect that the statistics are not a surprise to most. Bottom line as I see it… If God and the presenting of the Truth is not the firm foundation on which a “church” builds… It will not last.
The “extra’s” are just that…
I believe the extras can contribute to or take away from the overall worship experience. Some will come because of it, but will stay because of the change that comes from hearing the Truth, Being equipped to live in the world but not of the world, and ,most importantly, the life change they experience as a result.
If the “church” is not preaching the Truth consistently and not equipping to serve… The “entertainment” at some point will grow old and the extra hours of sleep or the extra time on the golf course, or in front of the tv will replace it.
I agree: the extras are just that. I concur with your thoughts in that paragraph providing they are given something “meaty.” All fluff and no substance will not cut it. totally agree with your last paragraph. Thanks Ryan.
It’s interesting how often we compare the relationship between church and Jesus as a marriage. And this is just like sex…follow me here. I think that divorce is so common among Christians because we want to have sex. We should wait until we are married but then young kids who can’t control their hormones rush into marriage, have great sex until it’s boring and then what?. They have to start actually learning what marriage actually is. And it can be tough. So tough in fact that it can’t be built strictly on sex. When my wife and I were in pre-marital counseling we were told that sex is a barometer of marriage. Notice we weren’t told it’s the foundation. If you make it the foundation, eventually it’s gone and then there is nothing left of substance to even rely on.
Okay, so…when people my age (27) discover that the music and the lights and the coffee bar don’t fulfill that hole in their soul, they start looking for more. There isn’t any substance to all of that. People started losing faith in the spiritual capacity of young people a long time ago and now the church has trained itself to build it’s foundation on hype and not loving relationships. Young people, myself included, are ready to be world changers and the church is too used to being world be-ers. (Ha! Beers). People are always shocked when my students say that their favorite part of Campus Life is group discussion. They know there is more to life and understand the pertinence of their soul’s condition. No matter how much the church tries, hype and money and coffee and big flashy stuff will never satisfy that. Never has and never will.
WOW jimmy! You ought to comment here more often because you say a mouthful. i so agree with everything you say. Your last idea: (No matter how much the church tries, hype and money and coffee and big flashy stuff will never satisfy that. Never has and never will.) is worth its weight in gold. Well said my friend. Thanks.
Hi Bill,
Craig may have said something interesting when he says:
“the next church’s next generation”
What we see in Scripture is God’s church in 2 different glories. The first church(or people) was the nation of Israel. The name of God for them was the LORD Almighty.
The next showing of the church is what we all here are familiar with. The Early Church was established on the apostles. The name of God here is Jesus Christ God’s one and only Son.
God often works in three’s. Another ‘church’ may be upcoming. This church may function with a new glory from the Spirit of God. ‘The Father, The Son, The Holy Spirit’. These three are separate persons and yet are one.
just some out there thoughts so to speak. There is a hope that the old system of church as we know it can be revived, but we may be looking at something new and different rising up.
One of God’s criteria for his presence in the midst is ‘two or three’ people gathered in his name’.
Wasn’t sure at first where you were going Linda but if you mean that perhaps a revival will come with the next generation, then I can concur with that. My gen and the next one down is fading into “oblivion.” It is the gen that is exiting that may very well bring about a revival.
I get a sense that not just the young people, but even the older ones, are beginning to say, “I really don’t care what you tell me I’m supposed to like, I’ll like and be who I want and who God wants me to be.”
I pray for a spiritual awakening across our country, for the integrity and honor among the people who served Christ and it to stand up and be counted among the strong, the great. The people who are counted great because of strength of God in integrity, doing what only the ones called to serve Christ could ever have the strength to do…
You are right Floyd. many are leaving. I think the report focused on the youth because of “relevance.” I would love to see a great move of God so that all people-young and old- would sense His presence. I too would love to see integrity and honor to the Name of Jesus be our calling card. Thanks.
Sele wrote: it is the gospel that is what matters
This is what I have heard from many people who have either dropped out of church, or who have gone to the traditional churches. From entertainment churches to abusive churches – all have abandoned the Gospel, and have replaced it with other things.
The gospel displayed with grace and truth is what is needed. Too bad it is often given harshly. Too bad people don’t understand it can’t be replaced. Thanks Susan for your comment. Did I understand your comment correctly?
I was saying that some churches that believe they have the truth of God’s word, but they make it about keeping all of the rules are just as bad as the ones that make it about entertainment. Both kinds of churches have taken the Gospel out of the heart of Bible teaching. Sorry – it wasn’t quite clear.
No problem with what you are saying Susan. Thanks for coming back. 😛
Hi Bill,
What we are seeing in the world is the inability to keep the present world systems because they are not working for people.
“First the natural then the spiritual”, the Bible says. So, it is likely that the current ‘system’ of the church as we know it will have to change too.
What seems to be currently happening is the church making a last minute desperate attempt to obtain ‘unity’ with anyone and anything that will stand with it. In order for the current This movement I believe is the current hurch ‘system’ trying to save its’ own life. This is men trying to save their own kingdom, just like the Jews did in Jesus’time.
The thrust today is for all religions to somehow find enough common ground that they have no disputes with one another. They can be ‘one’ so to speak.
What we can be looking for is to watch what kind of new system comes from the world. If it’s a more on-line system with less buildings and offices we may be looking at something similar for the upcoming church. Time will tell. We just need to be aware that there are things going on around us in current church system that may not be from God.
It depends on what comes from the world. If they go to a huge conglomerate of an organization we may be looking at something like that for the next church. Our personal relationship with God in the Holy Spirit will help us determine where God’s voice is coming from and what path we should follow and walk in.
Just go on record as saying, “I personally do not believe there will ever be a ‘one’ so to speak.” That won’t come until heaven when HE has sifted all things and they are as He decides.
I always get a little squirmy when I hear, either through books or studies, that the church is failing big time…it just doesn’t sit right with me. Sure churches fail, people in churches fail but the CHURCH…I don’t think so. The surveys and the books never fully cover what is happening in the underground churches around the globe…are they successful? Are they healthy? Probably not worried about what Barna reports…should we?
It always (IMO) starts with me, my individual heart and the response it shows to a great heart like Father God’s. That is what enables me to love ALL that He puts in my path…church, community, work…you get the picture.
And let us consider how to stir up one another to love and good works, not neglecting to meet together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another, and all the more as you see the Day drawing near. —Hebrews 10:24-25
As always Bill…some great conversation…thanks for letting put my two cents worth in.
I am glad you put in your .02 cents worth Jay. I welcome and value your opinion. I also do not believe the church will fail because Jesus promised it would not. Surveys are just that…surveys…done by somewhat incomplete methods. But they can alert us to some potentials. You speak well here and maybe I need to do more thinking. I am convinced though that biblical preaching and legitimate worship is still the order for the day. Thanks, as always, for taking part.
” I am convinced though that biblical preaching and legitimate worship is still the order for the day.”
As do I my brother!
🙂
The great need of the hour is revival and reform that produces true churches where God is the center…the glory of God is the focus…and the Bible is the authoritative and sufficient manual.
AMEN!!
I think there’s multiple ways to look at it. In a very zoomed-out way, I’m not at all worried about the church. God’s in control and he’s going to do his work around the globe. The church will never be defeated.
But in a very zoomed-in way, we can talk about the church in our little corner of time and space. And I think there is value in us thinking about how to best reach our local culture and best meet their true needs. And the thing is – that’s not always what they feel their needs are. It’s what God says their needs are.
I like your zoom in/out picture Loren. I firmly believe God is in control and the church will never be defeated. We do need to reach our culture though, but I don’t believe it is done by compromising the truth of Scripture (not saying all are). Thanks for your good thoughts.
All I’ve got to say is,.TELL IT JIMMY!!!! Great blog Bill!
Thanks Jan. I also just had lunch with Jimmy. 🙂
I think the church is doing exactly what the pharaseese did in Jesus time. Too much legalism and not enough love and gospel readings. The other isue I would think is refrains put on the free will of the Holy Spirit.
Disdain shown on ones that embrace the Spiritual Gifts and Charismatic actions.
In some research I have been doing, I have noticed a Catholic church here that embraces the spiritual gifts and openly practices the gifts ( prophesy, tongues, healings, and maraculous healings.
A Baptist Church in Ky. embraces the charismatic movement.
A Vineyard church here promotes an event called the Encounter which openly practices healing, prophesy, worshiping with the latest trend in worship music, and miraculous healings.
Certainly the activities that the apostle Paul embraced in His writings in the bible.
These three venues do not seem to be suffering from declining attendance though in my view.
Granted people do want the reading of the gosple to be in the fore front of their worship but I also think they want the entire package as is dictated in the new testament.
I will not argue Larry that three are exceptions to the rule. While I may not agree with the examples you give here, I cannot doubt that God is moving in some places. The suggestion of the survey is “generally” this is true. Thanks for the comment.
You started quite a conversation here, Bill. Lots of insightful comments. And thanks for the mention (and the quotes).
I like conversation! 😀 The quotes were powerful Glynn. You have written a great book that I hope many read. Thanks for coming by.
I agree with your thoughts. People don’t need entertainment they need to be shown Jesus. We should preach Jesus and let Him do the entertaining. This must have been a great event to attend.
I went into The Elephant Room with a rather dubious attitude. Some statements, blogs and events had me wondering. i was glad I went. it was challenging and worthwhile. Hope to share some thoughts next week. Thanks Dan. I agree about the entertainment.