I mentioned in this post that I had attended The Elephant Room last week and that I hoped to share some of my thoughts with you. (I know you have been waiting with baited breath for my eloquent lessons) 🙂 I took some notes as I was able (room was dark; they talked sort of fast; I couldn’t pause or rewind; and I can’t think of what was said, if I am trying to listen to what is being said). I will be able to do that when I get the DVDs. The next day though I sat down and went through the notes I was able to take and wrote the following thoughts/quotes in my Moleskine. When you get the pastors who were there in one room, a ton of stuff gets said that goes unrecorded by hand. So…here are some thoughts for you to consider. Mine follow.
Do I want to make a point or do I want to make a difference?
Gut punch! So many people/leaders have their own agenda, and they want to make sure YOU GET THEIR POINT! Sadly, that is often at the demise of making a difference in someone’s life. It has been my experience that sometimes, no matter how “right” I think I am, it is better to lay aside my point for the sake of making a difference in a life. I am not talking compromise of truth, but even that can be handled more tactfully at times.
Will I be a Kingdom builder or an empire builder?
Please notice the capital “K” in Kingdom. I did not write down who said this, but it stuck with me. I have no pretense of building an empire in my small corner of the world, although I have seen some small town/small church pastors walk around like a banty rooster, lording over their “chicks,” attempting to keep them under claw. If God chooses to grow any ministry, it should be His fame that gets spread; not ours.
Ministry is not a right; it is a privilege.
Pastor James MacDonald made this statement. I can almost picture when he said it; it hit me that hard. I used to think because I was a pastor I should get special treatment. What garbage! I am honored that God has chosen me to do what I do, but I would hope that if, for some reason it was stripped from me, I would still serve Him.
I teach what I know; I reproduce what I am.
WOW!! That is loaded!! So many thoughts come to mind, but I will let you draw your own on that one. If you get a chance, check out this post that is sort of along the same line.
Okay, so now it is your turn. Of the four statements, which one “clocked” you a good one? Why? I would like to hear from you and get your thoughts.
Those are all great points. I think the last one struck me the most. The way it spoke to me was so often we are so cosumed with sharing our knowledge about this and that we do not realize the most impact we are going to make is through people watching our actions and how we live. We will reproduce far more people who watch and look up to us than we teach.
Just my thoughts… Thanks for sharing.
You are so right Adam about people watching us. Sobering thought. Thanks for coming by.
The make a point/make a difference one really stirs my soul. Some have become good debaters, but terrible doers of the Word. Being right is good (sound doctrice), but we also must be concerned about the poor, needy, and wandering.
Good point Matt. We have enough debaters. We need doers. Thanks. Good to hear from you again! Been awhile. 🙂
Do I want to make a point or do I want to make a difference?
that hit me.
a lot of folks like to preach/teach/blog to hear their own voice or toot their own horn. Bottom line is that it comes down to the fruit. What sort of ripple effect are people having in their circle of influence. Doesn’t matter the size of the circle…but we will be held accountable for the impact that we make.
thanks Bill!
So true Craig. You last sentence will preach…we will be held accountable for the impact we make. Thanks for coming by.
All of them are thoughts that really push me hard but the first one – do I want to make a point or a difference? I find myself at times doing this very think – trying to make a point – wrong direction.
Sounds like it was a good day – glad you enjoyed it my friend!
All in all it was a good day. Still some unsolved questions but that is for the “biggies” to resolve. 🙂 Glad you recognize the difference Jim. thanks.
Bill, what comes to mind is that too many pastors that I have seen and listened to want everyone to know they are the pastor and they are in charge. After all, God called them and He gives them the vision.
What I am hearing you say is that pastors should be partners with everyone else. And that’s what I think is Biblical.
You read my mind well Larry. 🙂 I absolutely believe I am a partner and NOT the one in charge. Thanks for seeing that.
Hi Bill,
‘Do I want to make a point or do I want to make a difference’? This is one that stood out to me. I agree with seekingpastor that clear doctrine is required, but in other matters in our everyday lives with people we are witnessing to there is some movement to make decisions based on the circumstances and the particular person we are sharing with.
You say,
“Please notice the capital “K” in Kingdom”. I’ve been watching for this word ‘kingdom’ in the scriptures. So far, I haven’t found one place where ‘kingdom’ is capitalized. I’m beginning to wonder if the popular teaching of the ‘Kingdom’ today is a doctrine of man rather than God. In diabolical deception the appearance of truth is intertwined with error. It’s very easy for the believer to be deceived by this subtle connivance of wickedness.
We are in a mind game with our enemy the devil. The devil is the master, we are the subjects or prey in this fighting arena. The only defense we have against such error is reading the Bible, and praying and communing with God.
We need to know that we have teachers among us that are elevated in christian cirles who are teaching error either unknowingly or knowingly. John the apostle calls these men and women ‘wolves in sheep’s clothing’. These false teachers are confessing believers, or at least that is the image that is portrayed to others by these people.
The time is here now and has been for quite some time where christian teaching needs to gone over with a fine tooth comb so to speak. We can no longer rely on the teaching coming from christian circles and leaders as being the Truth of God.
Glad that one stood out to you Linda. The reference to the capital “K” was mine, not anyone from the conference. My point was to make sure we understood that our purpose was not to build our own kingdoms where we lord over people, or empires where we are the boss. I am speaking of building the church by promoting Christ and His love. Just so you know that I am not kin to a diabolical deception, and certainly want no part in being a wolf in sheep’s clothing. 🙂 Thanks for the comment.
Hi Bill,
I certainly do not believe that you want any part of being in error or of being ‘a wolf in sheep’s clothing. I believe that you are very interested in Truth, and Truth is your heart’s desire. However, this does not exclude us believers or leaders from accepting error.
My thinking is that the ‘Kingdom’ being taught and preached today in churches is definitely about having control, power, and dominion over others. The teaching of the Kingdom is about lording it over other people and creating an empire so to speak of ‘christians’. Am I mistaken? I could be. I haven’t been under the influence of this teaching. I’m going by what I have heard here and there about this teaching of the ‘Kingdom’ that is happening in churches.
I’m sorry that I am losing confidence in the ‘church system’ as we know it today. I think that pastors are too afraid to speak truth anymore. They want someone else to do it for them. My thinking is that these pastors who feel this way should step down and give room for others who can do the job of correcting errors in the church.
This is my 2 cents and it’s harsh I know.
The idea you bring up about the kingdom being taught is just another way many “preachers” are preaching an un-gospel, i.e. name-it-claim-it and others of their ilk. Almost chuckled at the suggestion you made. There would be a whole lot of empty pulpits across this land if that were so. Hmmm maybe not such a bad idea. 😉 Thanks Linda.
“Huh”! – “Wa-What happened”? I’m just coming too from that flurry of punches that landed me on the floor.
The common thread tying these things together I believe is selfishness in it’s most basic form. Making a point is about self, as is building an empire to stroke our ego. Believing we’re special is one thing, thinking someone should treat us different is grounded in self as well.
As a coach I can say I’ve had some good influence on the lives of young adults. I also have to admit that the reproduction of my personality in some of those kids, especially my own is less than honorable.
A pastor Rick Efrid once said, although he didn’t claim to be the author, “People don’t care how much you know, until they know how much you care.” I somehow think that this is a pure heart and hopefully with that pure heart, it covers a multitude of sins.
Man this was a tough one…
Good analysis Floyd about selfishness. Tragically, many pastors & their people are not immune to junk that comes down the pike. Like you, I have also not done a very job at times of reproducing good qualities. Thanks.
“Do I want to make a point or do I want to make a difference?”
this is so good and fights our inner child of wrath!!!
we want to be right so bad..but in the end…are we helping anyone?
Great point Arny. Are we helping anyone? To ask ourselves that question on a consistent basis would really hold us accountable. Thanks for coming by.
I had heard that “I teach what I know. I reproduce what I am.” quote elsewhere, probably from some other ER recaps. That one nailed me. I’ve really been thinking lately about being a person of true character and not just someone with teaching abilities, so this one really was hitting hard on that.
It is good that you are thinking of being a person of true character, Loren. The church & the world sure could use more. Thanks.
“I teach what I know, I reproduce what I am” That’s a strong statement upside the head right there for me. Through the years I have learned that you don’t just teach it, you live it, if you don’t live it, something reproduces not so flattering to oneself or to God.
Good app Jan. I like what you say, especially at the end. 🙂 Always good to hear from you.
Will I be a Kingdom builder or an empire builder?
That one stuck it to me Jon because it goes to the heart of motives. Thanks.
That last one really struck a chord with me. It kind of goes along that actions speak louder than words mentality. Reaching others/impacting others starts with me…powerful statement.
I liked that one also Jon. Thanks for coming by.
You know for years I wanted to make a point. It was all about me. It took a while, but these days, I want to make a difference. I could care less if they remember my name. But I want lives to be changed and God to be glorified.
-Peace
I appreciate your heart Allen. Love what you are doing in your new ministry as well. Your goal of lives changed and God glorified will happen. Thanks.
Ministry is not a right; it is a privilege.
This hit me. I think that sums up our life as well. Being one of God’s children isn’t a right, it’s a privilege.
Not much to add to that Ed. Thanks.
“Do I want to make a point or do I want to make a difference?”
Since serving God requires denying self, wouldn’t it be fair to say that preferring to “make a point” over “making a difference”, would be elevating self above serving God?
That is exactly what it is John. That is the problem. Thanks.
Hey Bill. Yeah, I still read :D.
Not that any point above did or didn’t hit me, but I’m curious of your thoughts on the ER as a whole? I’m assuming you’re speaking of ER 2, right? I recently finished watching the DVD’s of the first one and while a great number of good points were made, it seemed like I was watching a series of comedy DVD’s. Don’t get me wrong, I loved it, but thought if these pastors were actually debating “their” views rather than admitted manufactured views, it might be more interesting and a better teaching tool. It seemed to me they made Platt appear to be a stick in the mud and regardless of what any of them thought, McDonald’s view was the right one.
It did serve one positive though as I generally can’t stomach the sight of Driscoll, let alone hear him speak, but I came away with a new respect for him as he admitted he has done and said LOTS of things that he regrets. We all, of course, have done this, but to hear a man I have been seriously turned off by because of some of the things he has said, admit this publicly, I was impressed.
Hey Toby! Good to hear from you! Been wondering about you but my trips to TH are few and far between. I have never seen all of ER1 but since I had signed up for #2 and changed the venue, they offered free copies of 1 & 2 for compensation. I am looking forward to seeing them in their entirety. how did I feel about #2? Mixed bag actually. parts of it were brilliant. I came away convicted about my attitude toward Stephen Furtick and wrote him to apologize. i was impressed by Wayne Cordeiro and Crawford Loritts. I am still shaky on T.D. Jakes. if i were to see a renunciation of his Oneness views from the pulpit AND his name-it claim-it views, then I might come away with a different attitude. I am taking it as the jury is still out. Some have gone so far as to accuse Pastor James of using the “race card” if you don’t agree. http://teampyro.blogspot.com/2012/01/elephantiasis.html Like I said, the jury is still out. I enjoyed it. Would I do it again? Don’t know. Would depend on topics and who was there. My feelings of Driscoll mimicked yours.
Thanks for coming by. I thought you had gotten off the grid. Hope Ria is doing okay as well.
I have to say, TD Jakes has always been one of my favorite preachers to listen to and still is today. I have never researched his views, but gathered something was up. In the first ER, Furtick and Macdonald mentioned his name once or twice and never got into specifics, but it was apparent they did not hold the same view of Jakes. Furtick obviously being a big fan and James not being a fan at all. Still not sure what that’s about, but I’ll be sure to get ER 2 when it is available :-).