Two quotes to get you started out right this week. (Okay so maybe they won’t change a thing about your week, but they will get you to think about this post). 🙂
There has never been a spiritual awakening in any country or locality (me: or church) that did not begin with united prayer. A.T.Pierson
Following on the heels of that quote is this one by Bill Hybels:
When we work, we work; but when we pray, God works.
Those two quotes got me to thinking: could that be one of the reasons why we are not seeing a “move of God” in our churches today? I realize there are exceptions to that, so if you know of one or are a part of one, then great! Perhaps you can add to this discussion at the end. However, many of us (myself included) often wonder why God’s Spirit is not moving in our churches. Why do things seem humdrum? Why are we not experiencing real changed lives? Why are we not making a difference in our communities, in our churches, in our school?
Could it be…and I am thinking out loud here…that we have been trying to do too much of it on our own and in our own power? Have we become so enamored by the “bigger is better” mentality (and I am not against large churches), that we have sacrificed passion for position or prestige? Have we sacrificed prayer for programs? I can remember once hearing a pastor tell about his visit to another country known for its packed prayer meetings. He was so overwhelmed he asked the other pastor, “What’s your secret? If we call a prayer meeting in America, we can meet in a phone booth.”
Maybe prayer will take on a whole new meaning if we realize anew that it is the most intimate time we can have with God. Prayer is a channel for God’s power. His power can change lives. His power can change circumstances and relationships. His power can heal marriages. His power can help us face daily struggles. His power can heal psychological and physical problems. His power can meet financial needs. The skeptics will say, “Oh, those answers are only coincidences.” It is amazing how many coincidences occur when a person begins to pray.
I don’t know about you, but if Jesus thought it was important enough to pray (Mark 1:35-39), how in the world can I think differently?
So, here are some thoughts you can consider for your comments. Do you agree with what I have said? Why or why not? Do you think we have substituted programs for prayer? Does your church have a prayer ministry? Do you take part in it? ‘Course if you want to comment on some other idea this post drudged up, please feel free to do so. Meanwhile, I am going to close this post and go do what I need to do…pray. 🙂
Love this. In my experience there seems to be two sides of this spectrum. There are churches who tend to not work hard and claim to pray and there are churches that work really hard and also claim to pray. Very few desperately seek God to move. I’m not saying all churches do this, but it’s easy to fall into one of those sides.
I agree with you rob. Very few seek God to move. The ones that do are moving. Thanks for commenting.
BTW: to all my readers. You gotta read Rob’s post today about the day they found out their twins were not boys but one of each. It is hilarious.
I agree 100%. We have become even more enamored with our overwhelmed senses that we rely on them much more than people who God has enlightened should be.
I don’t know if there is any such thing as too much prayer. I know for sure I need some more of it. I’m also praying for God to pour His spirit out on our country and open the eyes of His people. That we might confess our sins and He would heal our nation.
I think you are right Floyd about the overwhelmed senses, perhaps not even more than in the church gatherings. More hype and less prayer (in some cases). I would also go on record as saying there is never too much prayer. Thanks.
It seems to me that when we earnestly pray to our Father that He changes the heart of what we are
praying for and our hearts as well. I often feel like I don’t pray enough but I think it’s more than
that…For me, it’s the whole staying and praying attitude…I need to STAY with Him more, allowing the power of being in His presence to change the person I am so that I can be more effective (more like Him) in the world around me.
I desire then that in every place the men should pray, lifting holy hands without anger or quarreling.
1 Timothy 2:8 ESV
You bring out a good point Jay. He changes the heart of what we are praying for and our hearts as well. Only by staying with Him can we allow His presence to change us. Thanks for the input.
I actually taught from Philippians 2:12-13 yesterday where it says that God works in us both to will and to work. One of the things I mentioned was how God is the one who gives us the desire and the will to mature. So, it makes sense that if I don’t have the desire to pray as much as I think I should – then I can pray for the desire to pray.
I think that’s a core concept that I’m trying to mull over. What if I started by praying for fervent desires to study and pray and to be more and more conformed into the image of Christ?
You know what I think? I think if you started praying that prayer you better look out! I believe He will radically change you and bring that about. Thanks Loren for a piercing question.
One of the problems I see in my particular church is we really get busy praying when things go wrong. Someone is really sick, disasters, etc… We need to be focused on and urgently praying all the time. Praying just to say thanks is something that we should always take the time, but seldom do.
your church is not alone Sele. I know ours is often like that also. Flood, health disaster of someone we know, death of a soldier, we rally and pray. But it is easy to forget to say thanks. Good point. Thanks.
I agree with ya! Pray is powerful force that we do not use nearly enough.
The church I pastor – we do a prayer meeting every Wednesday where we take time to simply pray together and for one another. We also share request through email. We pray – probably not nearly enough.
Challenging thoughts as always!
Interesting you should talk about a Wednesday night prayer meeting. How many churches still do that? gotta wonder if that is part of the problem in churches today…we have lost the power of “together” prayer. Thanks Jim.
Hey B,
This post came on the heels of a great discussion I had with friends we met with for dinner last night. The conversation lead us to talking prayer and our “quiet time” with God. We live in a society where we are hit from all sides nearly every minute of the day with things that distract us, with the exception of when we are sleeping or take the time to exclude ourselves from it. TV, radio, games, internet, texting, twitting, blogging, chatting, etc… We just simply don’t take the time to slow down and listen for the voice of God.
We continued talking and wondered if the early church that experienced the power of God first hand… did so because they chose to spend much more time in prayer, partly because they did not have all the other disctractions.
Not sure.. but did at least gave me something to think about.
There is no doubt in my mind, Ryan, that the early church enjoyed the move of God they did because of prayer. References abound that they were together in prayer; the building shook; people were healed; apostles released from prison, etc. I do think we have drowned ourselves in media. I am guilty even though I try to limit it. Thanks for taking time from your working/vacation to comment. 🙂
Awesome post. I love the two quotes at the top.
As a ministry leader, I’m often convicted of spending too much time on strategy and “willing” things to succeed, rather than seeking a move of the spirit, and gathering my team for focused times of prayer. I agree that we are not going to see God work if we don’t allow Him to take the reins, and do so by gathering our hearts together in prayer. Thanks, Bill.
You say something really important Stephen. Willing something vs. praying for the Spirit’s move. I have spent too much time willing something to happen. Great point! Thanks.
Hi Bill,
I think that as people of God things have slipped and slid over the past 50 years or so, to the point where we may be right on the edge of the precipice. This seems to be where the children of Israel were time and time again before God was able to bring them back to Him.
The people of God in our culture have become steeped in it. The world in fact, is turning to much of the culture of North America. Our music, our dress, our ideas, our beliefs(secular) etc.
I think we may have alot of idolatry going on in the lives of of God’s people as well. Individually, we will need to make the choice to serve God alone. Right now, the teaching in the churches is that you don’t have to. Once you are saved, you’re safe and there is no further need for you to concern yourself about your spiritual condition. God will ensure your safety.
In my mind this teaching is a breeding ground for anything goes in the mind of a Christian. “If I manage to keep myself from sin, good, if I don’t, it doesn’t really matter. I’m not trying to be a super christian anyway”.
In the churches it comes down to the preaching and the teaching. If people feel that there is no compulsion or need to really seek God other than to be a better Christian, they may choose not to. It takes committment and work on their part. It takes a repentance and a desire to conform to Christ. Teaching on the basis of ‘you should’ ‘but don’t worry’ is not going to be sufficient in my mind to bring about the kind of prayer that is needed in our day and in the lives of God’s people.
The children of Israel did not come to a position of repentance and sorrow until after they went into captivity.
Hi Bill,
In my mind it just makes reasonable sense that if a doctrine in the church is hindering believers in their move to maturity, this doctrine cannot be correct.
This doctrine is called I belive ‘Once saved always saved’ ‘OSAS’ and it has been taught in churches for decades. It has not produced the kind of fruit that is testified to in the scriptures. Therefore, it cannot be right. If you discard this doctrine, the scriptures make more sense in the NT and OT.
We have to do some tough things in the churches in our day. Otherwise, we will be left, just like the Pharisees were left by Jesus, to their own ideas and ways.
Idolatry to me is following the world’s ways and it’s thinking as much as God’s ways and paths. This is the average believer’s condition in our day. We see it clearly. We cannot do this as God’s people and expect his salvation. God is a jealous God. He declares clearly in scripture that no idolater will enter into the kingdom of God. Scripture says that a double minded man is unstable in all his ways.
We must choose God and his paths and ways for our lives or accept the consequences that may come because of our decisions. This needs to be put to God’s people. Elijah did this, Moses did this, Jesus did this. You preachers have to do this.
just some thoughts from me.
Thanks Linda for the comments but you will have to fill me in on how they apply to the post on prayer and the power we have available. I do appreciate your comments and while i agree with some of them, I am stumped. 🙂
Hi Bill,
I think what I am saying in my comment here relates to prayer because God hears the prayers of righteous men(humankind). If God’s people are in idolatry then their prayers to God are going to be hindered.
This principle is set out in the NT by the teaching of a man’s prayer being hindered if he does not relate properly to his wife. I Peter 3:7
Teaching and preaching has to go forward first. There’s nothing wrong with encouraging God’s people to pray, but without a right heart in our prayers we do effectively pray. In the case of people being in idolatry, there needs to be repentance, and movement toward the ways of God in the daily life of the believer.
Matt 15:8,9
If we want to make God mad, idolatry is the quickest and most permanent was to do it. We will incur God’s wrath, both the righteous and the unrighteous.
If you look in a concordance under the word ‘idols’ it speaks loudly that there is nothing by damnation and grief for those who are idolators without coming to God in repentance.
In this situation, people praying may not have much effect unless their heart is understanding and repentant of their sin of idolatry. This is the job of teachers in the church. Teaching the people what God requires.
Thanks for getting back to me. I understand what you are trying to get at now. Takes awhile but eventually I get there. 😉 No doubt our hearts have a tendency to be double-minded and divided. Thanks for clarifying it for me.
What I see is too much dependence on methods and programs. I’m not against those things, but if real prayer happened….watch out.
My thoughts exactly Larry. That last sentence packs a wallop because it is so true. Thanks.
When I was in college, I really enjoyed that the group/church I was involved with put a huge emphasis on prayer. When something happened, we prayed. Not just prayer for prayer’s sake… but we got down on our knees and begged God to intercede on our behalf. Truthfully, don’t feel that I get that as much now… maybe that’s a sign that I need to put more priority on it personally in my own life.
I think we can all relate to a time when things were different Dustin. We look back and say, “I remember when…when did I lost that?” I appreciate your honesty in seeing a possible new look at yourself. I know I need to do that upon occasion. Thanks.
“Could it be……that we have been trying to do too much of it on our own and in our own power?”
YES.
YES.
and..um…YES.
I know that in my life I tried to do so much on my own because churches that I’ve been in always did things on their own. Decisions rarely came after true extended prayer…a ten minute session with the elders isn’t extended IMO. God can speak in a few minutes but He also works on hearts over long periods. We can’t microwave God to fit our timetables.
I like your way of putting it Jason. 🙂 But I really agree with your thoughts on making decisions. Thanks for the input.
My reply to this is more personal. When you said “His power can help us with daily struggles.” “His power can change circumstances & relationships”. I know through prayer, God is defintely helping with my daily struggles, now I am praying He can help with with a relationship.(my dad) We’ve come to the end of our painful road because I made a decision, through prayer I made the decision & now through prayer I will wait for the healing.
Good post! Thanks Bill.
It is always good to see things are more personal Jan. I am glad you can do that. Sorry to hear about your struggles with your dad. Painful decisions are tough but sometimes necessary. I am glad you are praying for healing now. Thanks for coming by.
fyi….changed address to my blog http://www.theanalogoustruth.wordpress.com
Thanks Arny. i will make the changes.
Perhaps we have become so legalistic and like the pharaseese that we have lost the connection with God
Hard to argue with that Larry
I re-read your post so I wouldn’t get too off track. Yes, some churches are so far into the “seeker friendly” mode, that they are nothing but programs. The reason there is no visible “move of God” is because there has been too much emphasis on being politically correct and not enough on the seriousness of sin and its consequences. I can’t remember the last time I heard a sermon dealing with adultery, divorce, drunkenness, sex outside of marriage, etc.. When you quit preaching the truth, then praying for results, as a church, is a waste of time. Yes, God is love, but he is a just God and does and will judge.
God hears and answers the prayers of a righteous person. Jesus told the disciples they could do nothing without him. That includes prayer. We pray and we expect. Jesus said God knows before you ask. He already knows how He is going to answer, but since we are limited in our knowledge, we must continue on through faith and accept whatever that answer might be. I’ve heard many times that someone’s faith was weakened because they got no answer when they prayed. They say they are having trouble believing sometimes. My challenge to them is this. How can you then claim to believe that the death and resurrection of a Man who lived 2000 years ago can save you from being in a place of fiery torment for all eternity?
I can see your point about the “seeker-friendly” churches John. I am not into that particular approach but even then, it is easy to substitute programs for prayer or reaching out. It is a temptation to be politically correct and not preach about sin and hell, etc. Even those should be preached with love. Moody said, “No pastor should ever preach about hell without tears in his eyes.” I agree. Thanks for the thoughts.
i get it bill…
my church is dead set on church attendence…big time…if we don’t go church they makes us feel like we are going to hell…ok, maybe not that extreem…but you get the point..
they say hey, when a family member asked you to dinner…say no, i’m going to church tonight…
i see it as a problem because..well, aren’t we supposed to be the light of the world…not the light of the church…aren’t i supposed to share jesus with unbelievers…not believers…if i have an opportunity to show them christ over dinner…then i’m gonna do it…i’m not making a statement by saying…Nah, forget you, you are not important to me…only Jesus is…bye…Then..i don’t think i’m being very Jesus like…he was all about the people…
This is exactly what I am talking about Arny! This approach bugs me to no end. If all we do is surround ourselves with Christians and do Christian things, then where is the light? This past Sunday one of our families decided to forego being in worship and went to the gun & knife show in Indy. I struggled with it until I realized they were together as a family (doesn’t happen often) and they were with other members of the family (who are living together). It was a blow to my ego they weren’t there (I was concerned about guess what? Attendance), but then I relaxed about it. Amazing how God brought people to worship that day. Besides, as a pastor, sometimes I wish I could just take off like that. 😛 Thanks for your comment Arny. Sorry to have gone on so long.
When Harry was living in Portugal, and I was still stateside, neither of us felt like we had to write letters to each other. Harry does not enjoy writing, but oh my how he wrote love letters to me frequently, and I to him. We could scarcely wait for the next letter to arrive.